Installer Requires Restart

[stanz3k]

Post 1.2.3 Snapshots started requiring a forced restart. Is there any specific reason for this? It makes it a little irritating to run the latest snapshots as they're sometimes updated very frequently. Since most programs that request a restart nowadays don't actually need a restart at all, I just thought I'd check if there was a good reason for this in mumble.

[kissaki]

It’s not post 1.2.3, it has always been like that.

The overlay injects into (non-blacklisted) D3D and OpenGL applications. When it does so, the overlay DLL continues to be loaded even though Mumble is quit, for as long as the application that it was hooked into is running.

Thus, windows gives you a notice, that the DLL is still loaded and you should restart. (Windows manages the DLL loading/unloading.)

[stanz3k]

Thank you for replying.

This is interesting, since I have ALWAYS had the overlay completely disabled.

The processes it was apparently hooking were FlashPlayerPlugin_11_4_402_287.exe (Adobe Flash) and RzSynapse.exe (Razer Synapse).

So I did some more research and found this blacklist, which I've now changed to the empty whitelist. Hopefully this should stop it hooking anything, right? Might need to file this as a bug since this should be default behaviour if it's not enabled?

I've restarted firefox (which forced the flash processes to end) and it went ahead (though it failed to start RzSynapse.exe).

I'd also like to take this opportunity to rant about the overlay being enabled by default. By providing an example of a conversation I've had many times with people I've tried to get in to mumble:

Mumble sucks it keeps crashing my games.

Have you disabled the overlay?

Yes.

Are you sure you have disabled the overlay?

Yes.

Go in to the options and check you've disabled the overlay.

Ok it's fine now.

I genuinely believe this is harming the uptake of mumble.The overlay is a great idea and it needs to be done. But it should not be enabled by default while it has so many conflicts.

As for the overlay crashes themselves, should people submit the bug reports directly to the mumble bug tracker or is there a better place for this?

[kissaki]

Yes, crashes (game or Mumble) caused by the overlay should be reported to the bug tracker.

The overlay is an important and loved feature of Mumble, and in my experience and what I’ve seen as feedback only very rarely crashes games.

So you are saying even though you disabled the overlay in Mumbles settings (checkbox “Enable Overlay” is unchecked) it was active?

Is this reproduce-able on your end?

[stanz3k]

It wasn't active in the sense that there was clearly no overlay. But it appeared to be hooking processes since it wasn't updating. I've just tried updating it again this moment (since restarting since changing to whitelist) and although no prompt came up to close flash/synapse it did ask to restart to complete installation. The only thing I had open was Guild Wars 2. Which I since closed and tried again to no avail.

Side Note: Can it not be set up to finish copying the mumble_ol.dll on restart (and suggest a restart) but otherwise install normally?

EDIT: I've found the last conflicting application (that won't list) to be Evolve, which also has an overlay (though disabled).

[stanz3k]

So, despite my research this is still a problem. Mumble needs both Evolve and Razer Synapse to be closed on my machine before it can update. Evolve it won't even detect is a conflict and razer synapse it fails to restart by itself.

It never used to have these problems and a lot of my users are also running with the overlay disabled and complaining about being unable to update without being prompted for a restart.

side note: updating razer synapse forse closes mumble.

[kissaki]

I still can’t believe this is an issue when you have disabled the overlay.

Could you try removing mumble_ol.dll from your hard drive? This way we can make sure the overlay dll (which does the hooking and stuff) can definitely not be used by anything.

If the issue is still there then it’s not the overlay hooking that is the problem.

Note that after an install it will be there again, obviously. (So make sure to delete it after each install, before launching mumble, if you want to test it through more than one install, etc).

[stanz3k]

Still doing it. So if it isn't related to the overlay what else is the reason mumble refuses to install without closing razer synapse, flash, skype, evolve and likely many others. As I said before, this only started becoming a problem around the time of the adoption of OPUS.

[kissaki]

You did remove the mumble_ol.dll, and then restarted those applications/windows?

The dll may have been loaded by windows. You may have removed it while windows still had it in memory.

I really don’t know of anything else that would require application restarts.

[stanz3k]

Renamed mumble_ol.dll and restarted windows. Definitely still doing the same thing.